Thursday, June 5, 2008

The Business of Being Born

In case you haven't noticed, I like posting controversial topics. I like expressing my ideas, and I like hearing other people's ideas in return.. whether they agree with me or not. The purpose of this post is not to offend or be controversial at all, but I know that it has the potential to offend and be controversial based on the sensitive nature of the topic... and that topic is.... drum roll please.... CHILDBIRTH. The reason I decided to write on this topic, is because I A)Want to recommend that people see the Documentary "The Business of Being Born," and B)I want to explain to people why I have chosen to do natural childbirth, because when people have asked me in the past, I haven't known quite how to express my feelings and reasoning.

When I was pregnant with Sofia, I sadly didn't even think about childbirth until at about 4 months my doctor asked me how I pictured my birth, and I said, "I don't know." He then very calmly recommended that I aim for natural childbirth, and I said, "Okay." It seriously started out as simple as that. After the idea was planted in my head, I did more research on the topic, but of course I still wondered what I was in for since I had never gone through labor before. I have to add a disclaimer that I know that I have been very blessed with uncomplicated pregnancies and labors (uncomplicated... but painful). I know that situations come up that can complicate things, and I am so sorry for any woman who didn't have the experience that she had hoped for. I consider myself very blessed to have been able to have 2 natural childbirths. The pain was actually manageable until right before pushing... when I literally thought that I was going to die for a 15 minute spurt, but then before I knew it I was holding a beautiful baby in my arms, and none of the pain mattered any more. Besides health benefits, the emotion and intensity of working with Chris in perfect unity (except for that part when I was yelling at him that he wasn't listening to me) to bring a life into the world is indescribable. I guess I could go on and on about childbirth, but the one word that sums it up for me is "empowering." I know that childbirth in general is empowering, but since I have no other experience to draw on besides my own person experiences... I have to say that natural childbirth is amazing.

OKay.. so on to "The Business of Being Born." Even if you watch this movie and don't agree with parts of it or think that it is biased, it will definitely make you think. I would also add that it has the potential to make people who are very sensitive about the topic of childbirth, a little or a lot mad. The movie promotes the idea that in general, regarding childbirth, "less is more." Less intervention, less drugs.. They also talk about how mothers need to at least educate themselves on the risks involved with cesareans and even epidurals. There can sometimes be a ripple affect with interventions. A woman may be induced for personal reasons. After the woman is given pitocen, the baby that wasn't planning on coming out at that time may HAVE increased heart rate and show signs of distress...the woman may ask for an epidural because the pitocen made contractions really rough really fast, and then because of the distress, the woman is now in the operating room. There is too much information I could talk about from the movie, so I will just stop now. I have to again add that although I think that it is important that more women educate themselves on the process of brining their babies into the world, obviously we all just want everything to be okay and to meet our sweet babies ultimately.
Childbirth is beautiful. Sometimes I feel bad for fist time pregnant mamas who have to listen to war story after war story of how horrible labor is. Yes, it is hard, but it is also incredibly amazing and beautiful, and women should not be overly anxious or scared. I think that it would be so cool to be a Doula someday, but this would not be a good point in my life... but if anyone wants an "unofficial" doula or support, I would love to be a support to someone through this experience. Anyone need my assistance :)? I am not saying that everyone should be like me and do natural child birth... because it is a personal decision, but if you haven't already, educate yourself on the topic. Compare Cesarean rates in the US to other countries around the world, and you will see that in the U.S, there really often times is a business to being born. No matter how you choose to do it, I wish happy birthing to all :).


adrienne said...

Oh, Kara! I love a good discussion, but I will try and keep my comments minimal. I have an interesting perspective, because I have had one labour with an epidural and one natural and both were actually really positive, wonderful experiences. I totally agree with you that women need to educate themselves and determine what's important to them. To me, I agree with the less intervention the better, to a degree. I personally would never do a home birth (which isn't what you're talking about, I don't think), because I'm very comfortable with hospitals and medical intervention when necessary. What's your feelings on home birth? I won't go into details about my labour stories and the differences, but with my 3rd labour looming, I plan on doing it naturally again, mostly because I know I can and I prefer the least amount of "procedures" as possible. But at the same time, I have no real complaints about my first labour and in hindsight, I have no regrets about how things went with either labour. Labour is such a personal experience and I think that it's so important for women to have the best, most positive experience possible, whatever they choose to do. I'd be interested in seeing that documentary. I'll have to check it out. (Man, I sound so serious!! What's up with that?!)

juliette said...

I think it's weird that many women would pop ibu's for a headache or a strained muscle, but then feel like they have to prove something when going through what may be the most excrutiating pain they will ever experience. I do feel lucky that I didn't have drugs, though, because I think all that stuff interferes with your body's amazing self-healing ability.

juliette said...

I meant excruciating, I think.

Tonya said...

Hi Kara! I have to say that having a natural birth was one of the most amazing experiences of my life. I hope that I can have another natural birth with this pregnancy.

The documentary was good food for thought and I would like to watch it again.

K Harker said...

I like this post, and I am not trying to be the one who has not had a natural child birth and comment like I know what natural birth is like, because I don't.
But I did want to say that I think it's totally the womans choice and I do think Doctors should interfere a lot more than needed. I guess the one thing that bothers me about discussing this with certain people is that they think they are better than me because they did it all natural, and maybe that's true, but they aren't me, they don't know me. Ya know, every one is so different and every birth is so different and that is why it so personal. I had a girl I worked with who really tried to push natural birth on me, and made the risks of drugs seem so AWEFUL but it was so one sided, any way she was so judgmental that it almost made me just want to have an epidural to spite her, I know that is totally lame, but she was weird about it.
I don't think I will ever have one totally natural. I like not having to feel pain and I am a woos that way. I seriously have a very LOW tolerance for pain and would much rather completely enjoy the birth of my children than be in pain, any way that is why I choose not to and that is my personal decision. If it weren't for risks of infection I would have never had them induce me for my son, but that is a long story and I had to trust my instincts and my Doctor on that one. But I do agree that people are willing to be induced so easily for no reason at all, just to have the baby come earlier. I'm not for that at all, I'd much rather naturally go in to labor. I'm just rambling now but I did want to say... I always hear people say that with epidurals your body heals slower or what ever but I think really the body healing just depends on the person. With my first I took forever to heal, literally months. but with my son I still had an epidural and I healed SO much faster, and was back to normal in less than a week. Ready for intimacy with in those first six weeks or what ever the Dr. recommends. So to be honest I don't think for ME that healing is effected by my epidural. Any way I know this is totally my opinion and my choice and I applaud those brave enough to go all natural for their births, you are strong brave women. I, on the other hand am not and will probably not ever have a natural birth, and I am okay with that.
Sorry this is so long!

K Harker said...

I just realized that phrase I said " I think that Drs should interfere.." I mean to say Should NOT interfere more than needed." just to set the record straight :)

Margaret said...

You know, it is a complicated thing. With Amelia I went to the hospital because my water broke, they told me that they needed to induce me because I losing fluid so quickly. I had quite a few complications with my labor. But at first I really thought I could do it natural and the nurse came and talked to me about it. Well after about 15 hours I was exhausted and had no energy. They wanted me to rest and get some sleep so I could push but obviously cannot rest with regular contractions. I had the epidural and ended up grateful I did because I do not think I could've pushed had I not gotten some rest. It was a long ordeal with so many unexpected problems, but I still have fond memories of my labor and felt very comfortable with my dr. and nurse.
Anyway, I hadn't wanted to have to be induced and my philosophy was that the baby will come when its ready (not always the case for some I believe) and I kind-of feel that all my complications go back to that. But my situation seemed similar to your friends K. Harker. I trusted my dr. and felt good about it, but it wasn't what I had wanted to happen. I think it is odd that people schedule to be induced because the dr. is going out of town or something.
I think after having my first I am more aware for my second. Will I do epidural again? I don't know. I haven't given it much thought. I would love to do natural but..lots of decisions to make. You've got me thinking Kara.

Kara's Blog said...

Ah... I love a good conversation. I knew people would obviously have opinions on this subject. Thanks for sharing!
I love your perspective, because not many women are able to have both experiences. I like that you had a great experience both times... which goes to show that child birth is amazing period. So, home birth... I am not against them at all. I actually think that with how my last two labors have gone, I would be a good candidate for a home water birth, but I personally prefer the hospital. I like resting for a day after the baby comes and having unlimited help (I do know that midwives are supportive too). I for some reason also like doing 90% of labor at home and then going to the hospital just for the last few hours. It somehow breaks it up for me. I will have my next baby at a hospital most likely, but like I said, I think that home birth is a good option for many women.
Juliette and Tonya,
Do you feel pressure like since you did natural childbirth the first time that you would be failing in some way if you didn't do it again? I remember feeling that way a little bit.. like I had something to live up to. I am sure that you will both be able to do it again if you want, but don't add the stress of worrying you won't be able to do it again to the equation, because anxiety does no good. I remember feeling like I knew I could do it naturally again, but then I also could remember that it wasn't easy since i had the experience and could remember that it hurts... so that made me a little nervous!
I do agree that some women who have had natural childbirth are a little bit Martyr-ish about it trying to push it on everyone who comes their way. I have no intention of pushing it on anyone, and by the way... you are not a wuss. No matter how you do it..... no woman who carries a human being and then pushes a watermelon out of them is a wuss. You are a stud. Women are hard on each other. Why are we all so hard on each other? I think that we all just want to feel validated that what we are doing is the "right way," when what is right for me may not be right for someone else. I would be interested to have you watch the movie from your perspective to see what you think.

Kara's Blog said...

Even though you didn't have everything go how you hoped, I am glad that you still look at as a good experience... and it would be hard not to when you get such a sweet baby at the end. If you are a fence sitter on the issue... you for sure should watch the movie, because I would be so so interested in seeing what you think.

The Growing Hennans said...

Good for you! Great post. I can't wait to see that movie.

One big question I have for you. WHO IS YOUR DOCTOR? I never got the support or urge toward natural childbirth like you got from yours. I am aiming for a vbac possibly with Lisa next time, but would love to know who you see.

Cami said...

You know I'm a natural childbirth mama. This was a choice I made for me. I knew that I could do it. Love a good discussion.

Karli said...

I saw a TV episode one time that (although talking about adoption, and not different forms of childbirth) had a quote of something like, "In the end, what really matters is that they're here, and not how the got here." I guess I preface my comments with that quote because as I was reading all the comments, I got to feeling a little jealous. I was once told by a nurse practitioner (during an annual exam, long before I ever had kids) that I would never give birth to anything over 6lbs. I thought she was a nut job and never went back. When I got pregnant the first time, I was pretty set on a natural birth. I have an extremely high pain tolerance, and was pretty prepared. But in the last few weeks, my doctor started bringing up the c-section word. I got mad, thinking he was writing me off without giving me a chance. I haven't seen the documentary, but this is what I pictured as the "business" part of being born. But, I did go into labor on my own, and labored sans drugs for 12 hours while throwing up with each contraction. Finally, they wanted me to get some rest, so I agreed to the epidural. After another 8 hours, my daughter still had not even dropped to a measurable station. So I agreed to the c-section. I was sad, and did feel a bit like a failure or a cop-out, even when she came out of my 5-ft tall frame at a whopping 9lbs 3oz.

When I got pregnant with my second, I fully intended to do a VBAC. And I ate better, exercised more, only gained 18 lbs, etc. I was convinced, and my midwife was hopeful that I'd be able to do it. That was until a 37-week ultrasound measured him at 8lbs 4oz already! So, I was highly encouraged to do the second c-section. Though I hadn't had really any problems with my first surgery, and healing from it was really no big deal, my second was a different story, and was awful. My consolation was that he came out at 9lbs 12oz, so I was pretty convinced I wouldn't have been able to do it even if I had tried.

So now I am stuck having babies through a zipper. I'm not exactly bitter, but I do wish I would have gotten the natural experience at least once. I am grateful though, because without the modern abilities of c-sections, both me and my first probably would have died in the process. And that means my son (the 2nd born) wouldn't be here either. So I do have to keep reminding myself that in the end, it really just matters that they're here. I do appreciate the discussion though, because I think you were right on, Kara, when talking about the biggest issue revolves around being informed. I continue to be amazed at how little we as women know about our bodies and our cycles, and the general way our plumbing works! But knowledge is definitely power, and I love when these types of discussions come up to give us all a little bit more of our own power! Thanks for sharing (and!). -Karli

Kara's Blog said...

My Dr. is Dr. Rampton. He is a family doctor at Corvallis Family Medicine. He actually didn't deliver Gabe (he delivered Sofia), because he was out of the country.. so I switched to Corvallis Clinic late into my last pregnancy. I like him, because he is very low key but competent. He seems to have more of a hands off approach, but he also has been on top of things if I did present a concern. I don't know how he handles vbacs, but it would be worth checking into!!
You are the queen of natural child birth.

You poor petite thing producing such large babies!!! You are wise to focus on your children instead of how you wish things could have been different, because why waste all of that worry on something that won't change? I am so so happy that you found me and that we can be in contact again. Yea!! We will have to come see you in Portland sometime.. and you are always welcome to come and see us too!

Elisa said...

WOW!!!! So many responses...I love reading what all your friends have to say.

I definitely agree with you about natural childbirth being empowering...if you can do it, it makes you feel as if you can conquer anything. I had Sebastian naturally, and like you, I was fortunate because it was quick and without complications. With Ale I choose to be induced. If my circumstances had been different, I wouldn't have made this decision but when your husband is gone for 10days at a becomes a convenience issue. Ale was induced on her due date...and I don't want to go in to all the details...but yes the pitocin does stress the baby out and the word "cesarean" was mentioned before she was born. I wanted to cry...I never would have induced to risk having a cesarean. Anyway, my doctor highly recommends epidurals and he gave me one once I was dialated 6cm. I told the anesthesologist that I wanted a light dose because I wanted to feel the "urge" to push. It was light, because I definitely felt those last contractions before pushing. Unfortunately to stitch me up...they gave me a huge dose through the epidural...and to this day...I still have back pain. I was so scared to get the epidural (that's one reason why I didn't get one with Sebas), I don't know why I gave in with my second birth...I do regret it.
A cultural many women in Peru schedule c-sections. Another interesting thing is that I have met so many women that don't have any breast milk...I think it has a lot to do with lack of information.

Amanda Nemelka said...

What a discussion! I actually just saw a clip from this documentary on Rachael Ray...yes, I know...I shouldn't be watching it that show, but anyway it did intrigue me.

I think the idea of natural child birth sounds great and all idealized but in reality I know I couldn't do it. Not because I have a low pain tolerance or anything, but I think in that case you have to be on board from the start and mentally prepare yourself and have a fully supportive doctor, medical staff and spouse. I find the dr part really hard out here. Unless you specifically go to a midwife, most doctors are not supportive of natural least from what I have heard.

I just knew from the beginning that I would have an epidural. I don't regret it at all and had a great experience but it is a very weird feeling to be pushing and not feel a thing and have no control over your legs. Thankfully, the nurse had me us a mirror so I could see what I was doing...and my wimpy husband wouldn't see blood or cut the cord so I got to do it which was pretty cool. I still felt as though I was having an active role in the birthing process.

I also watched my son's circumcision which I'm sure could start a whole other discussion....

Jaime said...

Great Post Kara!!

Ok, first, KRISTEN...(k harker)
I don't know you but I LOVE you! You said exactly what I wanted to. I have 3 kids and wanted epidurals with ALL 3. My first I had an epidural with and my recovery was amazing. My second I wanted an epidural.. was given one..and it did not work, AT ALL. So really I have experianced both epidural childbirth and "Natural" childbirth. I actually hate that term "natural" childbirth because all birth is Natural. It is all miraculous! Im not playing down those amazingly strong women who do have drug free births, because they are superwomen!!! I don't know how you do it. I absolutly hated it!!
And because I hated it, sadly, my second childs birth was not enjoyed, or really even remembered much because my body has blocked so much of it out.
So, really I agree with you Kara that women should be educated and I would love to see the movie, and not in terms of swaying me, (because that won't happen) but for me to be able to pass it on to my girls.

juliette said...

Kara---NO, I don't feel pressure, because I didn't set out to have a "natural" chilbirth. I guess I'm a natural chilbirther by default. My plan was to try first without the drugs, kind of like my philosophy of pain management in general. If I have a huge headache, I'll try a hot shower and relaxation first, and if that doesn't work, I'm straight for the ibuprofen. So I never said "no drugs," and, to be honest, that stadol sounds really nice.

Julie said...

With Brynlie they numbed the heck out of me and I LOVED it! Everything went great and I was able to enjoy every second. My recovery was super fast and wonderful. With Kelson my epidural wore off for about 30 minutes and I wanted to die! I would so much rather get the drugs and have a great experience. We're lucky enough to live in a day with great medicine, so I fully plan on taking advantage of that and my kiddos are just fine because of it. If you don't want drugs that's great, but I wouldn't dare have a root canal without them so why would I think of pushing a 10 lb baby out my whoo-whoo without one??
I know so many people who get enduced just to have the baby sooner. I know a few who have requested a c-section just because they didn't want to deal with the labor. To that I don't agree. Unless it's medically necessary I think that's kind of crazy. I don't think doctors should be cool with that. There is a DR. here who loves to schedule c-sections for anyone, just so his day works out as planned.

The only debate I do have on this post is the option of home birth. I am so against it! I think it's so dangerous. What if something went wrong and you couldn't get to a doctor fast enough? That scares the heck out of me when people do that. I couldn't imagine having something go wrong. So I ask, why do people do the home birth thing? Is it just to say you had them at home? Are you against doctors? I'm seriously confused as to why people consider this. I'd love to know.

Kara's Blog said...

This conversation just keeps getting better and better!! I love it! Okay, so I will share a few more opinions in this next part.. so once again please don't take offense.. these are just my ideas. I think that we've already established that birth is miraculous in every form blah blah blah and with that:
Elisa: Having a baby in Peru sounds very interesting! I know how much people have to work in Latin America, so I bet that Chalo was crunched with time. I can not wait to meet Ale and smooch her. I can't wait to hear more about your time in Peru.
I think that natural childbirth does take mental preparation. I most definitely don't think that I would have done it if I hadn't planned to in advance.
Like I just mentioned, I bet that your experience with Connor wouldn't have been bad if you had planned on it, but you probably were not mentally prepared to deal with it if that's not what you wanted. I do think that all birth is natural and miraculous.. but I do think that true natural childbirth is just that... natural.This sounds dumb, but I imagine a deer in the forest laboring, and they are not induced or given epidurals or cesarians... that is true natural birth... the body just doing it's thing. So, yes.. all child birth is miraculous, but not all natural (this is my opinion).
It will be interesting to see how your labor goes this time!1 I am like you.. I am not into popping medicine first thing for a headache (not to mention the fact that I am always nursing or pregnant so I can't really)... so maybe that is why natural childbirth made sense in my head. Didn't you have a really fast labor last time? If I am remembering right, you won't even have time for an epidural!
First I have to say that I am glad that you have felt good about your birthing experiences, because that is important. With that said,
YOU HAVE TO SEE THE MOVIE!!!! It may make you a little mad, and you most definitely will not agree with lot's of it.... but one of the main points of the movie is that in the US, we have higher cearian rates than some third world countries. In most countries around the world, women do birth at home. Birthing at home is not statistically more dangerous than birthing at a hospital, and a good midwife will transport you to the hospital if necessary or if there are complications. The movie brings up the idea that some women are freaked out by the idea of home birth, but they will go and have an elective c-section... which is a major surgery, with potential problems. Like I mentioned in one of my first comments, I don't think that I will do a home birth, but I have nothing against the idea of it. You and Jaime should watch the movie together and tell me what you think!! I know that your children are fine... but when we compare our birthing practices in this country to countries around the world, we see that maybe the US isn't more advanced in this area. Like I said.. with childbirth, less is more, and that is a concept that most other countries get. In don't think that women who have homebirths are necessarily anti-doctor, but the more I learn and grow as a mom, I am not willing to completely trust whatever a doctor says without doing my own research and following my mama intuition (see my vaccine post as a reference :)Whoo....okay, I am done blabbering.
I am sure half of you agree with me on some of my feelings and the rest of you think that I am crazy, but you probably already thought that I was crazy before anyways.

Elisa said...

Interesting comments Kara. I'm not sure if Peru is considered 3rd world or developing...I think 3rd world. The reason women here have children at home is due to a lack of access to health care... it is not necessarily by choice. However, the women that do have access ($$$) many of them elect a cesarean births.

On the other hand, Chalo's uncle married a woman from Germany many many years ago and she has a natural birthing clinic. About 7 years ago a baby was born under her watch with severe brain injuries because she was so intent on the birth being natural.

I think a balance is good. When I was pregnant one of my friends told me, women have been having babies for thousands of can do it! And it's true...there should definitely be some mental preparation for a natural birth. Just some random jabber.

Julie said...

Kara this post must have sparked quiet the interest in everyone.

I really think you should check out a blog called
Jaime told me you had a certain question that you wanted everyone's answers to, and that is the place to find it! About a month ago that's all they could talk about! But on that blog you can ask anything. I think some of your questions would get lots of responses. You'll have to check it out.

Kara's Blog said...

Balance is the key!
I will check that blog out!!!

Steve & Sarabeth said...

I just wanted to say that it is possible to be very well-educated and still opt for pain management. I have read every book out there (okay, maybe just most of them) and I have seen this video (informative, but definitely one-sided, and thus, narrow minded). And for me, the epidural has been the way to go.

It was my goal to go into each of my births with an open mind. With both, I chose an epidural. And both of my births were the most wonderful, exciting, and yes, empowering experiences of my life. And because of the epi, I remember everything, and was able to savor every moment with Steve. I actually wish I could relive my births. I want to remain open-minded with each birth, but I feel no shame or lesser sense of accomplishment for having chosen epidurals. I love birth!

On a completely different note, Kara, I just finished A Thousand Splendid Suns, and you were right. It is easily one of the best books I have ever read. I stayed up until 2am on Saturday reading it, and I was literally sobbing through the last few chapters. It really was amazing.

Kara's Blog said...

I am glad that you were able to do research and find what has worked for you. I think that anyone who knows me well (like you) hopefully knows that I really am not judging anyone who has done things differently than me. Of course we all do what we think is best for our own situations. I think that most documentaries have some sort of bias.. so I just go into watching them knowing that.
I am so glad that you loved the book. I have a book club this week to talk about it. That is one of the few books that I feel like has made me want to live my life differently. Like not complain so much about my own life, and I still have ideas of how I want to change (that's why I need therapy :)

Marianne said...

I know you are waiting for me to get on my soapbox...

Jaycee's Daddy said...

Hey Kara,
It's Josh Becerra (Chris's Cousin). I couldn't help but look over your post and I think this is such a good topic. Now I would like to preface my comments by saying: I have no idea what childbirth is like and I cannot even begin to understand how you ladies are able to get through labor and smile about it later. With that said; I found that as a man it is just as important to understand the options that come along with labor. Ultimately the choice is the mother's, but support before and during is so essential. As much as it killed me to watch my wife in pain, I like to think that my support helped her keep her "eye on the prize" so to speak. In the end we were so fortunate to have things go exactly as planned and our little girl came naturally into the world. With that said, I think it is almost harder to go natural than by other means. I found myself almost fighting with the nurses to keep IV's out of Jess' arms. Our Doula was a big help for us and she helped the process go smoothly. All and all the choice ultimately lies with the mother and our job as fathers is to make sure we support her in whatever her decision might be. The most important thing is that our little ones come into the world safely so they can grow to be our big ones!

Kara's Blog said...

Bring it girl :)
A man's perspective...yeah!!! It sounds like you were a wonderful support to Jessica. Keep your opinions coming. We need some testosterone one this blog :)

Elizabeth said...

I personally like being in touch with my body during that critical time of child birth. I think the odds are in favor of people who want epidurals, and I believe they can be very good for people too -- it's a personal decision. I didn't have an epidural with my first and I did with my second (not until the end of the labor though b/c I was so tired) and I didn't like being numb. I couldn't tell if I was pushing . . it was weird. Your brain says, "Okay push" and you just hope that you are. So I will not be getting one with my 3rd delivery (unless some complication warrants it). But I know many people who choose to have an epidural and are grateful for it. What ever makes the experience the best for you. It's such an amazing experience! I'm grateful to be a woman for a lot of reasons -- but pregnancy, child birth and nursing top my list. It's amazing what our bodies can do!

Chris said...

Hey Kara not to change the subject on your most popular blog post ever, but being the wife of a photographer, how can you steal someone's pregnant picture for you blog! Just because you googled it doesn't mean you have copyright permission....Next time come talk to a pro before you post!

juliette said...

Sounds like SOMEONE is a little, hmmm, shall we say jealous? That the pregnant belly from their portfolio didn't make it onto this hot blog?

Kara's Blog said...

My dear Christopher,
I am not just the wife of a photographer, I am Kara. Copyright Shmoppy right. Love ya
And everyone else, Thanks for all of your comments!