Wednesday, September 10, 2008


As of now, my official blog poll shows that McCain and Obama are tied! Interesting. At first Obama was kicking Mcains booty, but all of a sudden a few more Mcain supporters started casting their votes.
Ah... good old political discussions. Although I am no where as intense and passionate about politics as my dear hubby, I must say that I am getting very excited this election. I am a registered Democrat, but any one who has talked politics with me knows that it is hard for me to full on choose a side, because no topic is black and white to me like both parties try to make them seem. With that said, I will say that after watching good chunks of both conventions, I do know that I am way closer to being a democrat than I am to being a Republican... and here's why... (bye they way, feel free to discuss your differing opinions with me if you would like :).
*No child left behind has left a lot of children behind. It has done bad things for students, teachers and programs. Teachers are supposed to implement crappy canned curriculum that is not in the best interest of children. Programs like the one I helped run (Even start) are being cut as early childhood education hasn't been valued.
*Socialized health care is a good thing. I know that it would undoubtedly have it's flaws, but I feel like every human being is entitled to some sort of affordable health care. I strongly believe that it is morally wrong for HMOs to be making billions off of sick people or to deny coverage or treatment. I feel like many people in our country are happy as long as their family is okay. It is not okay for me to worry only about myself. We need to take care of each other. (The social worker in me is coming out)
*Taxes are important. I realize that in order for us to have roads, libraries, social services etc... we need to pay taxes. I would definitely be okay with people who are really rich having to pay a little more... so that might mean they can only own 5 houses instead of 6. I know how tax money is used is really important, but I try not to complain too much about taxes when it comes to important things that we all benefit from or who help those less fortunate than myself. I know that we can all (myself included) get a little frustrated with people who work the system, leaving less resources for hard working families who really need the money, but I don't feel it is my job to judge.
*Immigration. Building a fence is a horrible idea. We are talking about human beings here, not numbers. I know that things need to be done to tighten security, but let's treat these people with some respect. Most of them are just here for better lives.
*The war. Why are we in Iraq? I am still sincerely confused. There were no weapons of mass destruction. The terrorists who attacked us were not from Iraq. I truly appreciate all of the sacrifices that our soldiers have made for us, but there are things about his war that worry me. If any of you have read "Three cups of tea" you know that helping educate people is key to ending oppression. I am not saying war is never necessary, but President Bush sure has messed things up even more.

Okay, those are a few of my feelings. I am sure that some of you totally disagree with the a lot of my ideas.. .and that's okay. That is why our country is so great. We can all have our opinions and respectfully (hint hint) disagree.


K Harker said...

yipee I'm the first to comment! Unfortunately I don't fully agree but like you said that is ok! My opinion is quite different because I don't really like either candidate.
I guess I have a hard time having faith and trust in politicians these days. My friend put up a post about McCain and Palin and got a response from a friend of hers who I will quote because I feel much of the same way as he does......

" I was excited to read your comments and the comments of others on your blog. It was nice to hear someone who has such excitement regarding the election and voting. I wish that I could share such excitement. It is like watching a young child who still believes in Christmas. Politicians from both parties attempt to establish a persona that will appeal to the most voters. They read talks that are written by professional writers, and tell the public what they want to hear. They take polls through companies like Western Watts and then repeat what we want to hear as often as they can. The democratic convention and both conventions, for that matter, were like watching or listening to the Miss America contest—with less cleavage. Both parties are going to fix the energy crisis, cure cancer, cure AIDS, or end world hunger. Both parties claim to understand the common man, both parties are supposedly going to lower taxes and both parties claim that the other party is only catering to special interest groups. In truth both parties are pandering to special interest groups. I am from Idaho, the land of Larry Craig. Larry is the senator who stood up to the big politicians for Idaho’s interests, the man who fought for small town values. He is also the man who was arrested for soliciting sex in an airport bathroom stall. I wish I was more optimistic in our future. I wish that good honest people who actually wanted to create positive change where running for office—and I wish that I still believed in Santa Clause."

A little dramatic, I know, but I feel much of the same way. I cannot and have not based my vote off of the Democratic/Republican Conventions. Like he said I find these conventions some what silly in that they just say what we want to hear, Not necessarily how they will do these many things for us and our country but just that "If I were your president I would do this and this and this and....." you get the point. And "So and so will not do this for you because he is not me, yada yada yada." they both say the same things it seems. unfortunately in the past these things we want to hear that they (politicians) spat out to us to get their vote never came to pass. I know I sound pathetic with such little faith in our government, it's not our government that I don't have faith in, it's the politicians (washington ones) that I have a hard time believing. I guess I'm just being realistic when I feel that they say these things to get our vote because really that is what they are doing.

McCain has flip flopped on many topics regarding his campaign some more important than others. Obama is running/trying to hide from his scetchy past and I don't find that very honest either. McCain has more experience but Obama seems to want change for every one. Who do we choose? I guess it's a matter of prayer and an educated vote.

I had a friend tell a friend that if you are mormon you can't be a democrat, no worries I DO NOT feel the same way, in fact I think that is a very ignorant thing to say.
But I will say this regarding this election, I have a very hard time voting for some one who is so far left on his stances, who's moral values are way far from mine. (I am not saying this because of things I have heard in the media, I did my own research on both Candidates in this case, just an fyi) I know that there is more to this election than just these type of topics but I feel these are the sign of the times and we are truly in the last days and if we give up what we hold dear and true like our moral values what will we have left?!

I think with this election I am totally torn but also I think I know, to some degree, where I stand.
I am not one to judge "mormon democrats" I find nothing wrong with choosing the "other" party, this is just how I feel. I hope you realize I am not trying to offend, these are not my intentions.
Sorry so long ;)

R&A said...

Thanks for posting. I like hearing democrats say why they are, in a simple and friendly manner.

Personally I have opinions up the wazoo about socialized health care. Every human being has health care, do you think God would leave us in the dust? Honestly. MEDICAL care if a different story. What I don't like is that our society puts medical health care out likes its the only option, and it's not. In fact its' the most expensive, least effective option! So socialized healthcare would make the only option for everybody, costing us tons of unneccesary money.

Plus, in our house we see it like this: We don't want to pay for someone else's irresponsibility. Now perhaps if the government said "Okay we will pay for your chemo but only if you give up processed foods," then that is a different story and I would totally support that. But the fact is, we are creating these diseases and helping them to grow, and then we curse the government for not helping us through it all.

Less is more. I agree with the founding fathers. I don't want my life ruled by the government. I like.... oh, yeah, this thing called FREEDOM.

I really don't get into the issues, when it comes down to it, I follow my heart. When one candidate speaks, I feel the spirit, and when the other speaks, I feel pushed over. Which person really loves their country, and which person just wants to get elected? Hmmmmmm

R&A said...

p.s. May be helpful to note that three, I believe, supreme court justices will be appointed during this term - and who do you want appointing them? Pro life or Pro choice? That will make a huge difference!

Julie said...

First of all I will say that I HATE politics! It's just people arguing and it drives me nutso! With that said, I do have to say that I'm not totally in love with McCain, but between he and Obama I pick him hands down.

I have many issues, but the thing that bugs me the most is that Obama wants to pass a law so that no one will be able to own a gun, but yet he'd be first in line to kill an unborn child. What are your opinions on this Miss Kara?

Jeremy grew up in El Paso (which is right across the street from Mexico) and so I have strong opinions on border control. How do you feel about paying for health care and food stamps for all those who cross illegaly? I know some do want a "better life" but so many are here to not work and just mooch off of us. I'm all for bettering their lives, but why not do things legally?

Kelda said...

I get confused by politics and frustrated with everyone being so black and white, just like you, so I usually don't take a stand. here's term of president is never going to change anything. first of all because of checks and balances, second because four years just isn't enough to implement a program and see it be successful. although I think that it's enough time to see if a program will fail or not.(No Child Left Behind) and how it should be changed. So....(this may be fence sitting) for myself, I like see the kind of person I'm voting for. Are they willing the stick up for their beliefs in America's constitution and do something that's not with the crowd? Even if it's unconventional? I think someone that is like this has a chance of thinking outside the box and trying something innovative and new that can possibly answer all the needs of Americans. no matter who is President we have to realize that they will make mistakes and won't be perfect and some things are beyond their control. I get frustrated with "promises". Every presidentail candidate makes promises and fails to keep them when elected. Politics is tricky. Government is tricky. Leading is tricky. Promises shouldn't be made. Plans yes......but not promises.
I have friends that vote and say I should vote, according to our beliefs, whose pro choice, gay marriage, or whose not. And I sometimes, sometimes mind you, think that that is wrong. Because as President you represent the rights of all Americans, those that have different beliefs from your own, and because of that responsibility sometimes you have to choose against your own beliefs in order to more fully represent the liberties and rights of Americans. Yes, you should stand up for your values, but no, you should not oppress others. You should respect others. And i've been accused of allowing the "devil" get a foot into our country because of that belief. "President" should do what is best for the country as a whole, now and for the future, despite of his personal beliefs.
I wish that instead of attacking each other's mistakes, mis-said comments, and voting history, canidates would focus on their plans more, and show how it can change and better our country, and how it differs from the opposition. It's ridiculous to drag up history from 10 years ago, why not focus on the future instead of the past? I understand history shows example, but life also changes and so do people. For myself, I'm going to research each canidates plans and make it a matter of prayer. Only Heavenly Father knows the future, and who would be able to face our country's challenges, so whomever I FEEL is right is who will get my vote.
Thanks Kara, I'm sorry this is so long. I've been wanting to say my peace and opinion for ever but no one is willing to listen and observe without trying to push their own politics and beliefs down my throat! I appreciate your post so much and your openmindness!! thanks again!

Karli said...

Wow, you're brave Kara. I've been itching to put up a similar post on my blog, but I was a little afraid of the comments. But I LOVE talking politics with trusted friends (unlike many people) because I love finding out what and why people think.

I have heard before the comment about being a Democrat and a Mormon and I also believe the idea is ridiculous. The church asks us to be informed and to vote... a request that I think far too few of us (in the church or otherwise) heed.

I guess I would have to say I'm a registered Republican (although I really consider myself a libertarian, but I believe in the two party system) for many of the same reasons that you are a democrat, which is what I find most interesting.

*NCLB is a travesty and an embarrassment. It was a bi-partisan bill in which the federal government totally overstepped their bounds. This country is absolutely too large, in both physical size and population, to have a one-size-fits-all solution to education. The federal government should absolutely not be in the business of educating. Public education is great, but should be left to the states, and even better, the local communities to run and implement. I have a hard time seeing the Democrats especially, bow out of the federal education system.

*My feelings are similar on healthcare. While a socialized system might be nice in theory, the federal government absolutely is not prepared to run it efficiently. I don't think it should be one-size-fits-all either. I'm a big proponent of states rights. Giving the federal government more power has almost never solved anything, except to create more red tape and block people from getting the services they need. I believe that healthcare was affordable BEFORE it became a right. Before people felt entitled to having it with their jobs. At that point, the healthcare providers and the recipients had to make a conscious decision about how to spend money, and ways to provide cheaper, quality services. But once the HMOs got involved, people didn't have to worry about the prices anymore. Unfortunately, on a socialized system, the people with money would still be able to be served, because they could afford to leave the country and get treatment elsewhere as soon as they need it. Everyone else would be stuck waiting for months or years to be treated, some dying in the meantime. I won't take up space with my solution right now, but I do think there are better ways to accomplish this.

*Taxes are incredibly important. But again, when you look at my other comments, I don't believe the federal government should be providing much of the services it does. Let us give our money to our states and communities. We'll have more of a vested interest in where it goes, get more involved. I think there would be less milking of the system too. Part of the problem of taxing the rich is that most people don't realize that they ARE the rich. I'm lucky enough to be able to stay home because my husband has a great job. But we earn less than two teachers working full time. And yet, we are still considered to be in like the top 20 percent of incomes in the country. I don't think people realize where those lines are, because they only think of the ultra rich when talking about taxes. How many teachers do you know that would consider themselves in that category? Plus, small business owners get glommed into that category as the "rich" and would be taxed into oblivion on Obama's plan. That is really bad news for the job market all around.

*I'm not sure that immigration is a partisan issue, for the most part. I don't think there's a whole lot of agreement on either side about the best solution. I think that who we really need to go after is the employers who hire illegal immigrants, make it less appealing to come here illegally, and more appealing to come here legally. It seems really simple to me, and I have a really hard time understanding the big deal.

*The war - well, this one I don't have a very good answer for. But I do know that there have been a number of weapons found that really could have done mass destruction, but got absolutely no news coverage. Not the ones they thought they were going to find, however. Regardless, we're there. Hindsight is 20/20, or more like 100/20. I believe the world is a better place without Saddam, though that may not be justification. But I also don't think it's helpful to go back to the argument that we shouldn't have gone in the first place, other than in the context of deciding when and how to go into any other conflicts. The fact is now that we are there. And what are we going to do now? Just up and leaving would probably start World War 3, and I think even Obama realizes that now.

So, sorry for the long comment (seems like your blog always leads to that for me!). I love your discussions. I am absolutely excited about this election, because it is so fun to see people actually caring for a change. And it's great to see people feeling represented. Many people feel represented by Obama, and I for one have never felt more represented than by Sarah Palin. I will be voting for McCain/Palin because I'm terrified of the sheer size of federal government that Obama is proposing. His ideas of one world living happily together are great, and I'd like to support them, but I kind of feel like he wants to bring everyone together by making people do it HIS way. Everyone will volunteer, but only on HIS approved volunteer organizations, for example. It just doesn't seem right. I guess I'm just a local gal - I like things coming from and staying here at home - produce, dairy, taxes, leaders. Thanks for the discussion! That's what makes this country the greatest one on earth!!

Steve & Sarabeth said...

Okay, I'll bite!

I will say that I disagree with you on pretty much everything, but that's okay! Here's my input, though it won't be as lengthy as it could because my kids are being kind of crazy right now:)

No Child Left Behind...okay, I acutally agree here in that it isn't working. At all. And it needs to be totally revamped. However, the intent of it is right on...I believe that both R's and D's want the best education possible for our nations's kids.

Health care, taxes, immigration..I'll echo someone else who said that I don't want to be paying for someone else's irresponsibility. I do believe in taking care of one another, but there are major systems going bankrupt in areas close to the border because thousands are coming, mooching, and we don't get a penny from them. So, Americans who are need of this aid don't get it. That's not okay. And for the record, I (and the Republican party, too, generally speaking) am all for immigration, as long as people go through the appropriate channels.

The war. Oh, this is the area that gets me going. Where I live, there is an army fort and air force base, and I have many friends who are military or whose husbands are military. I also know a family from our church who escaped Iraq because they feared for their lives (long story). They are endlessly thankful for the fact that America is interceding and fixing their country. And, according to them, that is the feeling of the vast, vast majority of Iraqi citizens. Also, men I know that have come back from serving in Iraq say the same thing - that people thanked them left and right for what they were doing. You say that oppression is not the way to create change, but what I think many don't understand is that this war is not about oppressing the Iraqi's about FREEING them from oppression. I have great fear for what will happen if we leave to early. It would be a horrible shame if we left too early, everything went back to the way it was, and all our soldiers died for nothing. That would be a tragedy.

A couple more things...abortion is a big one for me. I cannot support a candidate who is okay with abortion. With that said, McCain is not fully opposed to abortion, and that has bothered me (though Palin as the VP does make me feel a little better). However, Obama puts far fewer restrictions on abortion than McCain does.

Finally, my overall impression of Obama from the very beginning has been that he is a big ball of fluff. There just isn't any substance, anything that I can fully count on. I guess this is partly because of the lack of history/experience, but it's also just my gut feeling. "Change" has been his mantra, but I can say without a doubt that that is a political move. It's a way to draw people in. But he's still going to be Democrat, through and through. For as long as we've known him, that is all we've seen.

In contrast, though I haven't always appreciated how liberal McCain is, I do appreciate that he is willing (and has many times) to cross party lines. He never has been..thus I can trust that he will not be... a puppet of the Republican party. And that is a good thing, because like you said, neither party is perfect.

Okay, I'll stop. I will say that I'll be glad when this election is done...such a heated topic!

Anita said...

Ouch, It seems only Republicans have commented thus far...So I thought I would back my sista up.
I don't have time to write all my opinions because I am busy at school so I will just say this:
I agree with Kara on all the issues, and these happen to be the most important to me as well. I understand that there might be other solutions to the problems we face, and if people are willing to admit that these are problems (for example healthcare) than I am always happy to discuss different solutions, but what really frustrates me is when some have the perception that we ( as in US citizens)are the only people in this world who should eat, be able to defend our country, not pay taxes,and become educated . If an illegal immigrant wants to use "my" food stamps, than they are more than welcome if that means that they can feed their family for a day. I have family, friends, the church, work, and a credit card to feed my family, and these are many resources that others in the world don't have. I don't care where they came from, I care that they do not go starving. For anyone who is thinking that these people should work for it, and most do not, Than I would suggest really getting to know "these" people. I suggest reading Enrique's Journey for anyone who wants a realistic example of what people go through to get here and why they do it. I guess in this jumbled expression of much frustration over the immigration issue in paticular, I want to say have a little commpassion.....

Steve & Sarabeth said...

I'm feeling the need to clarify some things regarding immigration...

Yes, compassion is necessary. HUGELY necessary. And while there is a recent trend for Americans to bash on Americans and say that we're all selfish and don't care about the rest of the world, I totally disagree. I believe that most people are VERY concerned about the well-being and health of those in under-developed nations.

With that said, we can help immigrants in a much greater capacity when they are LEGAL than when they are ILLEGAL. When we make it a free for all and say "whatever you need, it's yours", we cannot effectively help ANYONE. I have all the compassion in the world (seriously, my dream is to go work in orphanages around the world!) for those less fortunate with me, which means that I WANT to help them! I'm not against illegal immigration because I think I'm entitled, but because allowing illegal immigration is simply innefective. (Yes, I realize that is a generalization, but a valid and researched one). And I want as many people as possibly to be helped. And I believe that most people, like I said, wholeheartedly agree.

Julie said...

This is Jeremy, Julie's husband. My wife isn't one to talk politics. She is not a fan, let's say. I on the other hand enjoy a healthy conversation. I agree with Kara that we all have the right to respectfully disagree with each other.

I don't believe that this election has left us with the "best" candidates for the job. I respect each, but I cannot back either one 100%. The issues brought up are controversial. I teach in a very low income, high migrant school for a living and I am affected and see how others are affected by each of the issues every day. MAN has no clear answers. MAN will always fall short. I feel that the best one for the job is the one in it for his country and for the general well being of all. I have learned a hard lesson teaching and that is, you can't help them all. It is the same with the government. The ones in power will never be able to help us "all". They have to do what is best (in their mind) for the general population.

I cannot get behind higher taxes or socialized health care. More taxes for big business just get handed back down to the consumer, who is already paying high taxes to support the careless decisions of many Americans (legal and illegal alike). In many cases, the "rich" find ways around higher taxes anyway--make a little less to stay out of the higher bracket, or shave revenues to appear smaller in size. Some (not all) tax breaks allow business to grow and thus provide more, better paying jobs for Americans (legal and illegal alike).

Socialized health has shown very little effectiveness around the world. In Canada, the average wait time for general practitioners and even specialists range from 18 to 32 weeks. That's four and half to eight months before you are seen! Sure the service is free, but is it worth the wait. They'll find a cure for cancer before you even get diagnosed (please understand my exaggeration). So say we increase taxes to help speed up the process. The results are the same. In the vast majority of cases, increased spending actually leads to longer waits. Look at the Military. It is socialized health care. I have spoken with several of our serviceman that have experienced "less than satisfactory service" on base and at military appointed providers. From my understanding, military physicians are all compensated the same, general and specialist alike. When there is no compensation for higher performance or better service, quality declines. If the guy across the hall, who treats the flu and cold, is getting paid the same as the guy who is replacing my heart, why try any harder. Unfortunately many (not all, I don't want to generalize) people feel that way--if I don't get more for more work, then why do it.

As for immigration, I am no expert by far, but I have spent time getting to know "these" people. I have spent an incredible amount of time, my whole life. I grew up in El Paso, TX. My dad grew up in Dublan, Chihuahua and I have a lot of family that still resides in Mexico. My experience in school growing up was that it was "never enough". I am all for bettering one's life. But please don't come to my country and then feel "entitled" to all the freedoms that I "pay" for (out of my paycheck each month). As I grew up, I learned that not all those seeking a better life were like this. Many of my good friends in high school lived in Juarez by night (thus attending US schools illegally, not the point though). Later I served an LDS mission in the heart of Mexico. If there is anyone in this world that I have compassion for, it is the dear people of Mexico. My heart yearns to be with them everyday (that's why I work at Mills). Unfortunately there government doesn't want to help. The country is full of natural and human resources. It is simply untapped and unused (like our precious oil reserves--DRILL AWAY!). And here comes the issue--too many say the US should stay out of everybody else's business (like in Iraq, like Vietnam, etc.) so than why should we try to fix the problems of our brothers south of the border by allowing illegal immigration to overpopulate our country. Let's help them, but let’s help them help themselves--not give it away; that's how we create lazy, self-entitled Americans. Plus, over a quarter of a million illegal immigrants were in prison over the last few years. With about $45 a day to take care of them, that's over $5,400,000,000 a year. Plus an average of over 25% of immigrant families (in 2001) were "participating" in a major welfare program, as opposed to just over 16% of native US citizens. That is a lot of money, and I'm sorry, but my first priority is to provide for my family, and it is getting harder and harder.

As no surprise to anyone, I can go on, but I'm sure I have annoyed enough of you with my nonsense and statistics (which numbers are only numbers) but I appreciate this avenue to share my thoughts. Good luck to both candidates. Vote for whom you feel will best serve our country (and not his own agenda).

EmmaJ said...

Thank Kara for being brave and starting this discussion.

I just want to put my 2 cents in about socialized medicine... I think it could work, but only at the state level. Our country has way to many people for the federal government to be able to handle that. Having lived and still have family members in a country with socialized medical care I know that it isn't the answer that the politicians make it out to be. My mothers cousin had to wait 2 months for a triple bypass. Most of my friends over there have private insurance and use private hospitals because they don't get quick health care or good quality health care at the government facilities. And this is in a country with half the population of ours. I just don't think it could ever work on a national level.

The Deans said...

Hi Kara,
As you know Chris has been on my facebook page in a pretty interesting debate with some of my friends and I was just checking your blog to see if you guys had anything up and you did!

I am in agreement with most of the people on here.

Taxes: The "rich" are already getting taxed so much more than the rest of us. I know a few small business owners, who only own one house, who have worked VERY hard to get to where they are and how is it right or fair to take more of their money and just give it to others? Where in the constitution does it say that this is what the government should be doing with taxes? It doesn't.
Obama talks about the american dream, but once you get it he wants to take it away from you, just because you can "afford" it. Charity to others should be given on a individuals choice not a mandatory tax from the government. Skipper and I have worked really hard and sacrificed a lot to get to where we are. Other people can do it too.

Immigration: I too feel horrible that other people in the world suffer and don't have the same situations that we do, but we have to have laws and rules as far as immigration goes. But McCain wants to work at this too not just Obama. You should get on both of their web pages and read about their plans for immigration. Jeremy, Julie's husband, worded how I feel pretty well with this and the Health Care issue.

One issue that I think shows someones character and morality is abortion. Obama has said that he supports abortion but not just before 20 weeks, which is horrible enough, but also partial birth abortions. Seriously how much more disgusting can it get. Some things are black and white and I believe that this is one of them. It should be illegal.

Most people I know that support Obama have no idea why they are supporting him. So I am glad that you put up your feelings, even though I disagree.

Anita said...

Okay let me first apologize for my general judgement on those who want more boarder control, and possibly illegals out by saying they don't have compassion. Kara asked for respectful opinions, and I erred out of emotion. My comments sounded naive, and biased. I appreciate the comments from Sarabeth, in that I completely agree that we need to help them help themselves, but when someone is starving, you should feed them, and when someone is seriously ill you should give them care, regardless of your status. I want people to be able to provide these things for themselves, but but you can't tell people right now who are starving "learn first to feed yourself". Why can't we feed them while they are learning how to feed themselves? That is what frustrates me, there is so much emphasis on boarder control, and sending illegals back, when the emphasis should be in what can we do in these countries to help people rise above the weakening systems and situations they are in. That is truly in our best interest as a Country, and as human beings. I am not a pessimist, but I am constantly hearing ( especially where I live) talk say things such as " come, just come legal" " They can come and take the jobs I don't like, but don't take my job" " get out of my country" "if you come here you should learn English".... I could go on, maybe some who are reading have said these things before and I do not mean to offend, only to say that these attitudes imply that people are coming here to break the law, take our jobs, change our language to spanish, and take over "our" country. People come here for the same reason your parents, or grandparents or greats did. Whether or not they do it legally has to do with money, and corrupt bureaucracy, not there intentions to provide for themselves and family. Another comment I must say respectfully, is that spending two years, or two weeks in another nation, or with someone who is from a different country, I would even say living your whole life with someone, or even being half Latino, does not give anyone the right to say that we know what it is like to be them. Many of us will never know what is really like to rummage through garbage to feed our families. To get stopped in a store because your clothes are dirty from work and your skin is brown. Some may laugh at this comment, but it is real, and it still exists. We cannot possibly know what drives someone to the point to travel thousands of miles with only the slightest hope that you could cross a boarder alive, only to be discriminated against, payed poorly for 80 hours of work, and despised because you couldn't learn the language right. I feel that many have pity, but will never consider one to be as an equal, and considers their rights because of where they were born to only be theirs. My dad will often be in a room where someone makes one of the comments mentioned earlier about Mexicans, and than when they remember that my dad is Latino they will say " but you are not like them Carlos" As if my dad is somehow is better than "these" people. Who are "these" people anyway? Who are those Mexicans as most would say. They are people just like you and me, and the optimist, or maybe just the realist in me knows that they are good.

Kara's Blog said...

OH my gosh, I am overwhelmed. I don't even know where to start... so I won't start yet... I need time to think. I obviously can not respond to every single point and person at this point, but when I have a little break, I will touch on some main points.

Julie said...

Spoken by Jeremy...

As mentioned, I am no expert on immigration, nor have I ever claimed to know what it "feels like" to be an immigrant, or know how it feels to starve, or "rummage through garbage to feed [my] famil[y]." I don't. I have been blessed with a different situation in life. By "claiming" that I know the people spoken of, I simply meant that I do know them to an extent. I feel I know their hearts and their desires. I know that the vast majority of the people that come to this country come for the betterment of their own life and that of their family. Sure, let's help them, let's help them get on their feet, let's help them make a better life for themselves, but 20 million people? It'll take time and lots of money (unfortunately it always comes back to money in this world). This country has a hard enough time taking care of it's own people. There will have to be some medium somewhere. I don't claim to have any answers.

All people are good inherently. That is the light of Christ. That same light fills my heart when it breaks when I know a student is homeless, or when he misses breakfast because he was up all night while his parents fought and were taken to jail. I feel helpless when they come to me to be consoled. I don't know that pain. I can't even imagine. All I can offer is a hug. That doesn't feed the family. Please don't question my compassion. I do what I can to show these kids a better life--through an education, through consistency, through the love I share with them each day. There is no one answer. We cannot "help" them all. We cannot save the world. At least not any time soon. I can only look at this in a practical way.

I appreciate and respect your optimism and realist ideals. I really do, Anita. We may not see eye to eye, and I think that's what Kara is trying to celebrate with this discussion. Please don't feel that any comment was direct to you personally. We each feel differently, and I don't think you or I will convince the other,that's not what this is about. I do enjoy talking about this. Thanks for reading my comments.

Kara, we love you. Thanks for doing this. I would never have the "what-what's" to start something like this. That's why we love ya!

Chris said...

Wow! Where to start? I don't have time to comment on everything, but I'd like to take a stab at the idea of categorically eliminating a candidate because of their stance on abortion. I think the first key is that we need to tone down the rhetoric. We need to stop calling people who are Pro-Choice "Baby Killers" and we need to stop implying that people who are Pro-Life are trying to make the government in charge of a woman's reproductive system. (Obama has advocated for toning things down a notch by the way)

That being said, it has always frustrated me that people choose to support or not support a candidate on a single issue like abortion. Let's look at some recent history.

Since 1973, when Roe v. Wade became law, abortions have been legal in this country. 20 out of the last 28 years we’ve had an anti-abortion Republican as President of the United States. Abortion is still legal. John McCain is personally against abortion, I applaud him for his stance, but what is he going to do that the other anti-abortion Republican presidents have not already done? The reality is that John McCain whether he is anti-abortion or not he is not going to be able to overturn Roe v. Wade. Republicans know this but they still trot out the abortion issue every 4 years as a false hope of actually reversing the law. They get people all fired up over something that they know is not going to change and get people to vote on a single issue that has little bearing on the rest of the world and the country. We are fighting two wars, our economy is tanking, there are millions of Americans without health care. In my view, it does little good to vote for a candidate based on one issue that hasn’t changed even with Presidents who strongly opposed it.

Please don't fall for this Republican scam! It's false hope! They know they don't have a real plan for the economy, the war, education etc. so they try to get people to vote on these very divisive very emotional issues that will not change no matter who is president.

Ok I'm not going to comment on the immigration/welfare issue but I just have to say stay tuned for Kara's response. It's a doozy! You won't want to miss it!

However I'm glad that Jeremy has brought some statistics/history to the discussion. (although I would like to know your sources on welfare.) I think he is right when he said that we need to help "them" help themselves. But to really begin to do this it is time for Americans to look in the mirror and realize the damage that we have caused these countries.

Here are a few easily verifiable historical facts.

1. The United States stole half of Mexico. If you think the Iraq war was unjustified, just take a look at the Mexican-American War. If you don't believe me, ask Abraham Lincoln. He vehemently apposed the war, (and was later criticized for his opposition when he ran for president) that crippled the Mexican economy, and left the government in shambles. It also gave the United States the valuable port of San Fransisco which opened the Pacific to trade with Asia, not to mention Los Angeles and the Gold Rush of 1849, and the states of Nevada, Colorado, Utah, New Mexico, Texas, Arizona, and of course California. Things could have been a lot different economically if not for this awful ILLEGAL display of American greed.
2. The CIA ILLEGALLY helped to start a civil war in Guatemala in 1954 that overthrew a democratically elected government and started a 50 year civil war that killed over 200,000 people and created at least as many political and economical refugees. (many sought to come to the U.S.)
3. In 1973 the U.S. ILLEGALLY helped to overthrow the democratically elected Chilean president Salvador Allende and installed the ruthless dictator Augusto Pinochet who was responsible for tens of thousands of political arrests and hundreds of victims of torture and murder. Again this created social and economic turmoil.
4. In 1986 U.S. officals ILLEGALY sold weapons to Iran in order to ILLEGALLY fund rebels in Nicaragua who were trying to overthrow a democratically elected government. The result? You guessed it political, social and economic turmoil causing refugees to seek refuge in the country that helped turn their country into chaos.

There are many more examples just in Latin America, but you get the point.

I find it odd that many Americans shout (or in this case type) "Illegal is Illegal", or "I don't mind immigrants as long as they are legal", when referring to people who are trying to feed their families, but then turn a blind eye to the ILLEGAL actions that have caused the turmoil that motivates these people to come to the United States in the first place.

If you're for doing things legally don't we owe something to the countries we helped to ruin?
If you talk to many people who have come here without papers, undoubtedly they will tell you that they prefer to come with papers. However the economic pressures are so great that they cannot wait. I'm sure most of us "legals", if placed in the "illegals" situations would do the same thing.

I also want to point out that just because something is the law doesn't mean that it is just. We have to look no farther than the civil rights movement in our own country, or the right of woman's sufferage or the non-violent movement of Ghandi to know that.

When Rosa Parks sat in the front of the bus, there were those who said "Why do you have to break the law?" "I'm just for keeping the law." or "Illegal is Illegal." But Rosa, like Martin Luther King Jr., Ghandi, and the women suffragettes all knew that if justice had to wait to become legal, it would never come.

The United States, must accept ownership for the political, social and economic turmoil it has helped to cause, not just build a fence to keep it out.

Julie said...

I appreciate the historical information, Chris. It is always great to listen to (or read in this case) to someone who knows way more than you do about these kinds of things. As interpreted, I'd have to discuss it more, but it's very much appreciated and sincerely considered. I hope you'll find the time to post more. And as for Kara's post, I can't wait (that's why I am writing that at a quarter to midnight).

Regarding the source of the welfare data, it came from a report issued by the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS).

The Deans said...

Are you kidding me? I have not read one person on here that said they weren't for Obama just based on his stance on abortion. That is one of many reasons I have read on here that many will not be supporting him. Don't make it sound like some trivial issue. I would like to point out though that you are a democrat and you say that you are pro-life so why dont you get more fired up about it? It is a completely disgusting issue. I disagree completely that that this one little issue has little bearing on the world or country. I think that it shows how evil the world is getting. And you think that we need to stop calling pro-choice people "baby killers"? Well what should we call women who get abortions? If people would stand up for what they believe in democrat, republican or independent then maybe Roe vs. Wade could be overturned.

How can you say that illegal immigration is NOT a part in the declining economy. We spend millions of dollars annually on this problem. On Obama's webpage he has a small little section on his immigration reform, and on McCain's it goes into a lot more detail on his plan, and I have read them both and what is wrong with McCains? Also I have read on here that these immigrants are here because they want to feed their families and have a better life but you can paint it anyway you want but it is still stealing from the rest of us, and I am not okay with that.

You said ,"Please don't fall for this Republican scam! It's false hope! They know they don't have a real plan for the economy, the war, education etc. so they try to get people to vote on these very divisive very emotional issues that will not change no matter who is president."
That is a complete lie. I would also like to add that all the issues are emotional. Immigration is emotional, the war is emotional, and yes so is abortion. Obama is playing off emotions with is slogan "Change" so don't be hypocritical.

What people don't realize is that Obama's change isn't something new, or something that hasn't been tried before in history and, i might add, has always failed...and it's called Socialism and it is dangerous. It is made out to be the best thing for the people and it sounds great but it doesn't work. Obama stands for socialized health care, taking from the "rich" and giving it to the "poor" and this is all in the name of a better country. Well what will happen is the government will get bigger and the people will get less and less say. Sounds like great change to me.

Here is a great speech entitled The proper role of government. It was given by Ezra Taft Benson
Former Secretary of Agriculture to President Eisenhower. Read this and tell me what you think.

Jon, Markey & Bennett said...

I would like to appologize in advance for interjecting into your political conversation, but I have been talking to my sister-in-law Nia Dean and could not resist. I also appologize in advance for being one of those types of people that sees most issues as black or white, but pleas indulge me while I comment on the issues in the original post.

No Child Left Behind - Is not the best law and is a subpar attempt to improve education, my problem with it is it is too similar to what liberals have been asking for since the late 80's and does not allow for more local say. The real problem with education is not money believe it or not, it is with the way the money is spent. For example, in Utah's Jordan school district there are a couple of dozen administrators that have not seen the inside of the classroom for years and who's positions are ill-defined and each of them makes at least $120,000 while the teachers are making $30,000 to $36,000 a year if they are lucky. The conservative voucher approach (not necessarily the same as initiative 1) attempts to fix that by minimising a need for overpriced/undrworked administrators. If every student could use the tax dollars given per child given to the school system by opting out with a voucher they could go to a private school which would compete to get the best teachers by paying them more money and would have school based administration and not a layer of over priced local admin, state admin, national admin, and Dept. of Education, not to mention union fees supporting local Union reps, State Reps, National reps and the NEA Admin officers. Private Schools have already proved they can work far more efficiently as well as provide more money for teachers and providing a better education for students for a really long time now, and the best part is you can decide which school is best for your child.

Socialized health care - sounds good because we can automatically be covered but it is not that simple. The fact is that it does not work. I have a friend who's parents have lived in Canada (socialized medicine) their entire lives and have recently moved down here so his father can go undergo cancer treatments that were not readily available to him in Canada, he even had to go on a waiting lists months out for cat scans and then he could get on another list months out for other treatments only after his CAT scan results were in. They felt they may not have that kind of time. The only places that come close to succeeding in socialized health care are the scandinavian contries and even they are dependant on the free market system that develops all the latest effective treatments and prescribtion drugs, as well as new technologies and products. MRI machines, caner research, etc. And if socialized medicine would be run anything like our school systems then our tax burdens would grow greater than any insurance payment.

Taxes - some may be necessary but some are down right wrong, the results of "pork barrell" spending. (something Mcain has been fighting against for a while)
The way it works is like this...someone introduces a good or important bill for Hurricane relief (for example) and a congressmen decides that he will only vote for it if can get 15 million for pigmie research in his state's dessert but he can also talk senators x and y into voting for it, so the author of the bill decides to include it because he has counted and does not have enough votes, he then does that a couple of more times in order to get a 100 million dollar piece of legislation passed, unfortanely 30 million of it is on things that no one cares about just to unethically get bills passed. Although that may be an extreme example that process happens on the vast majority of bills that get passed today, and it adds up fast and I am sick of being forced to help pay for it.

Immigration - I like what was said about "respect" for those coming accross the boarder. I agree with that but they do not get respect by coming and then living in fear of being caught and sent back and being forced to earn low wages because they are working illeagally. The solution is to keep them from crossing illeagally but find more efficient ways to legally allow them into the country and get better jobs etc. If a wall helps us do that while also protecting us from terrorists than build it, if does neither of those things than don't.

The War - I know it is a sensitive topic, but why is it so wrong to help others in need. It is not a secret that Iraq was among the leaders in human rights violations(research Amnesty international - not exactly a hotbed for conservatism by the way), he used Mustard Gas (WMD) on his own people simply because their religious was different (well documented) and believe it or not that was one of a few reasons for the war. They did put too much focus on the weapons of mass destruction for which Bush should and is paying a price for. Saddam also did not comply with inspectors wether or not he had WMD's he certainly acted like he did.

As for comments on abortion, yes Abortion has been legal for a long time, but the republican's talk for the last several years is not just rhetoric, they have not brought about change because it is the Supreme Court that has created a jurisdiction over the issue, and as you might now the Supreme Court Justices don't change every four years and until recently has been dominated by liberals ever since FDR arbitrarily added two seats to the bench. But it is not uncommon to consider Roe vs. Wade as bad law even in legal sources, whether you believe in Abortion or not the supreme court should not be able to force every single state to have to make it legal ensure they supply gov. sponsored abortion clinics, which is what the Roe v. Wade decision does. And if one more liberal judge gets passes, they you may actually see it overturned.

Thank you for indulging me, I look forward to reading responses.



R&A said...

Chris makes a great point about Republican presidents doing nothing about abortion. But, hey, aren't you missing something? Socialized health care is NOT a new concept, and previous democratic presidents have done nothing about it!! :) two can play your game, hee hee

P.S. 2-3 new Supreme court justices will be appointed by this president SO THEN perhaps we CAN make some headway with the abortion issue.

P.P.S. Our economy is not tanking. A recession is when the market is in the negative for two quarters. But the markets has been going up and up and is quite in the green! High stocks mean a good economy, and successful companies mean there are jobs. The "poor economy" argument is pure rhetoric just to fire you up.


Kara's Blog said...

Okay friends and loved ones. The time has come for me to comment. I am a little nervous to do so as I don't want to offend, but I feel like it is my role as Corvallis Silly Mama to leave the last word (or try to anyways). People who know me well know that I have good intentions and am not ignorant or mean, and you are all choosing to read my blog after all... so here I go. (I am definitely not going to have the energy to comment on every response and issue, obviously).
*After reading everyone's comments, I am now wondering "Maybe I am a full on Democrat." By me disagreeing with a lot of your comments, you have helped me bring about some self discovery. Thank you:). Even though I don't agree with some of you, I appreciate that some of you respectfully put your ideas out there.
*People in politics are imperfect and often immoral to an extent. Bush included. We all know this. Maybe I should run for office, although it looks like many of you wouldn't vote for me (where are all of my Obama supporters to back me?). I have about as clean as a record as they come. Hey, if Sarah Palin may be the next VP, I may have a shot!
Okay, now on to some issues:
*Abortion. I echo a lot of what Chris said about the fact that nothing has really changed since Roe Vs. Wade. I am a mother of two children. In most incidences (think rape and incest as exceptions), abortion is absolutely horrible..... but there is something we are all overlooking. We need to help prevent people who are getting abortions from getting pregnant in the first place. Abstinence is a very important thing to teach, but it isn't enough (obviously a lot of people aren't choosing this route). People who do not want kids but want to do the thing that produces children.. need protection. Sarah Palin probably taught her daughter abstinence, but we all make our own decision for ourselves, good or bad. Abortion is such a divisive issue. Maybe instead of only talking about pro-choice or pro-life, we need to address why so many people are having abortions in the first place. This is a very complex issue, so let's not try to over simplify it.
*Immigration/welfare/socialized health care- This part is going to make some of you mad. I am not singling any of you out personally, it's just something I saw a lot of back in my BYU days that frustrated me then and still frustrates me. I have a problem with many of the comments from young LDS parents saying “I worked hard, so they can too,” or “Stop taking my tax money to feed your family, just live the American Dream blah blah blah.” Here is my issue. Many young LDS couples decide to start families right away. This is fine and a personal decision but..... Many of these young couples don't have the resources to provide for this family (even though they work very hard which is great). So in turn, these couples turn to Medicare or the Oregon Health Plan (I didn't hear them complaining about socialized health care when they had their baby for free), Low income housing, food stamps, WIC... the list goes on. I am not so much mad about the fact that I am paying for these things and I've never once used them (although there are many who would say that this is mooching off of the government as well) as I am about the fact that some of these very same people are the ones who are so critical of “mooching” illegal immigrants. Somehow people think that their situation was different and that it is not the same thing. It is!! If a young couple has ever tapped into any social service paid by the public's tax money, it would be hypocritical to dare go after someone else who was also just trying to “get a break” We all need breaks and help sometimes. Social services are not perfect, but they are necessary.
Some may come back to their defense and say “Well at least I am a citizen.” Why do many Americans act like we somehow did something wonderful to deserve all that we have? We just happened to be born here. It is a privilege to be blessed with the freedoms we have in this country, so some people need to stop acting so entitled.
I also want to add that I do not know any lazy Mexicans. I have more experience working with this population than most people who read my blog. Sometimes programs are enabling or not as efficient as they should be, but that is a program issue. Yeah, every once in a while there is a moocher, but is not the majority!! These families work extremely hard for unfair wages.
I also don't think that many people realize how hard it is to come here “the right way.” It can be a very very long and expensive process. I agree that there needs to be a process of how immigrants enter the united states, but it needs to be a lot more compassionate and practical than the next to impossible process that we have now.

Okay, this is all that I have energy for right now. Although I think that some of the comments above are a little (or lot) crazy, I guess we can respectfully choose to disagree. Can't we all just get along :)

Jeff said...

This was awesome. Beats counting Political Party bumper stickers. (right Chris?)

I really believe the Democratic party doesn't have an ACE over the Republican party. Nor, do I believe the Republican party has an ACE over the Democrats. Both parties hold different Aces.

That's why I have come to this political epiphany conclusion, after talking to Chris the other night.

When the pres is DEMO I would like to have a republican congress. And vice versa.

Chris said...

I want to let Kara have the last word on her blog...I suggest we all do the same lest this go on forever. If you'd like to read my response to some of the questions posed to me. You can go to

R&A said...

To whomever gave the link for the Pres. Benson article - Wow! VERY well written and to-the-point. I LOVE IT! There are dangers when we coerse citizens, and socialism takes away all incentive. He even goes as far as to say a socialized program for the poor is STEALING from the rich who earned their money. Of course we need to give to the poor - WE need to, not the government! We need to CHOOSE to ba generous on our own. The church does not believe in free hand-outs.

So perhaps I did steal when I took government money to pay for the birth of my first child. I assure you, I won't make that mistake again. (We didn't have money the second time around either, so I just did it myself :) )

Julie said...

This is getting silly now, but I will end saying that I know MANY people abuse government assistance programs, but not everyone who uses them are "mooching off the government". I think Medicare and OHP are amazing. What a great blessing I had to start my family instead of putting it off for years because I couldn't afford all of it. And Kelson's medical bills in the last year have reached over $80,000 so I am SO grateful he has OHP to help us out. I will never feel guilty for using either of them. I find absolutely nothing wrong with anyone taking advantage of a government program to help with pregnancy or the health of a child...if you pay taxes. That is the difference.

And when it comes to statistics in history they can be interpreted any way you want them to be, regardless of their source.

Kara's Blog said...

I am really sorry that my last post was misinterpreted. I was not judging people who use these programs, in fact, I am so happy that you were able to benefit from socialized medicine (I was trying to say that some other people may not feel as kind)!! I hope that other hard working people will also have coverage someday. The whole point of my post in regards to the health care/immigration topic was that it is kind of hypocritical for some people to complain about others using welfare (regardless of their status) when they have benefited from it themselves. Okay, let's close this debate. Obviously we are all passionate (this is good), and this could go on forever. Man, I didn't think I would ever have a post more popular than the one on natural child birth :). Peace and Love.

Elizabeth said...

Oh my dear Kara. I love you and I so respectfully disagree. I hear what you are saying, I do. And I must also add that I am not thrilled over either candidate. But the HUGEST thing that I can't get past with Obama is his stance on abortion. He supports live birth abortion! What the heck! To me all abortion is murder and those unborn babies are really the ultimate minority. Just like Hitler killing Jewish people because to him and his purposes, they were inconvenient. Obama supports women killing a life that has no voice or ability to speak up for itself because to these women they are also "inconvenient". But you addressed other good issues:
*Healthcare: Healthcare so needs reforming. There is too much beauracracy (who knows if I just spelled that right) and it's too expensive. BUT I don't believe the government should be in charge of healthcare. I believe the government can pass reforms and regulations for private health care. But you know people die in places like Canada and Europe waiting to be treated with their nationalized healthcare and frankly our country is BROKE and we can't afford it! What are our children going to do with a broke country? We are already pushing over a trillion dollars in debt. So reforms, are good, government control, bad. Didn't our founding fathers create this nation to get away from an over-powering government?
*Immigration: I believe we should carefully consider the lives of the human beings who want to come into our nation -- and the lives of the people legally in our nation. The crime that comes into our country because of illegal immigration and costs innocent American lives and hard earned money is so wrong. If a wall were built, it would only encourage LEGAL ENTRANCE into this nation. And with our tax money put to better use (instead of regulating illegal criminals, drugs, terrorists) who cross our borders, perhaps more could be done to help those who legally can come and contribute to our country. I love Latin people, I really do love that culture and those people. We have had families stay with us from Guatemala where my husband served his mission and they, wanting to respect the laws of our country are saving and working hard to legally enter our country. I really respect that and admire their determination to do this so it really blesses their families.
*No child left behind: I agree that legislation is not making one bit of difference in our schools. But that doesn't make me want to vote for a democrat. I think it's just another problem with the govt having too much control. I want to send my kids to a private school -- but it's so dang expensive! Oddly enough, private schools spend less per child, but achieve such higher results. Where as public schools spend more and have worse results. I pay tax money for public schools that are failing, and because of all the taxes I pay I can't afford to send my kids to a better school. That has got to change. We should have a choice as to where we send our children and not have to pay taxes for public education if we opt not to go to public schools. That would also force public schools to improve -- just like a struggling business in a free market.
*Energy: I'm tired of politicians standing in the way of the US creating its own energy. Today on the news it was reported that a huge pipe line that would provide our country with a billion dollars worth of natural gas and provide about 3,000 American jobs was denied being built because the residents of Malibu and all the way up and down the west coast didn't want it. So Mexico got it, the money, and the jobs. Good for Mexico. But what about us and our huge deficit and lack of energy? Are we a bunch of nitwits? We need that money, we need those jobs, we need that energy supply. Why was it refused? Just because it would obstruct someones view? Fears for the environment? Well it's there either way and crazy environmentalists just denied a great opportunity for our country to be safer, have more energy, more money and jobs. URGH!
ANyway kara, I so love these political discussions you are open to. You are a gem, I love your bike, and we both love the USA! HOORAY!

adrienne said...

I'm a late poster, but I HAD to! This is for you Kara, because I think the discussions mostly done now. As a Canadian AND an American, I think I have a unique perspective. I'm not going to go into too much detail about specific issues, but if I could vote, I think I'd vote for Obama. Canada is a more liberal country, so I think that influences my view on things. First of all, we have socialized health care and it is far better! My parents and some of my sibling live in the US and their main complaint is the healthcare. Our health care system is in no way perfect and I hope it improves, no one is denied care and that is far more important than anything else. Sorry. I'm pretty firm on that one. I think it's ridiculous how many US politicians promote fear over socialized medicine. Here's the thing the thing about abortion and gay marriage (something you didn't bring up, but has been brought up in other political debates), both are legal in Canada and while I do not personal agree with either, I have found that it really has not necessarily led to any moral decline. When gay marriage was legalized, it was this big debate and argument here. We weren't given a vote, unfortunately. But I have seen no change in the moral status of the country. And as far as abortion is concerned, I do feel that it is heinous. But I agree with Chris that someone being Pro-Choice isn't necessarily a "baby killer." It just means that they feel that others have the right to choose. It doesn't even mean that they would have one themselves. I don't agree with it and I'm Pro-Life, but abortions will happen whether we agree or not. And if they become illegal, then they will happen anyways, but in unsafe and risky environments and methods. I firmly believe that abortion and gay marriage contribute to the decline of the family. But so does divorce, infidelity, pornography, etc. I believe that I should stand up for my beliefs, then go home and teach my children what I want them to learn, because if I leave it to the government (Republican or Democrat), then I really have no say at all in who they become.
The church has firmly stated that members are encouraged to vote, but the church does not support or promote any specific party. We are supposed to stand up for our morals and beliefs, but that doesn't mean we can't be a democrat and do so. In Canada, I tend to vote with the Conservative government. I don't agree with everything that every government leader says, does, or believes in, but I have to cast my vote with the ideals and views I most line up with. It would be the same if I were voting in the US. I don't have to believe in everything that a candidate stands for to put my support behind them. There are plenty of Republicans who claim to be "Christian/God-fearing" people, but don't have the same morals as me. There is a lot of corruption in government and many immoral things that go on in both parties. I just think we have to make the best decision we can, based on what we have. I think it's impossible to agree 100% with every aspect of a candidate.
Anyways, I'm not a huge political debater and I'm not really knowledgeable in the issues at hand in the US. We have an election coming up here next month, but I still see more coverage on the US election, so it's hard not to form some opinions.

Elizabeth said...

I have to correct something on my first comment -- and I realize this is kind of an old post now but I had to anyway. We have a deficit of $9 trillion (soon to be 10 trillion)! I am exhausted by the idea of programs that require us to pay more taxes, more spending, less control over our own lives and futures. Think of all the expenses we have: the baby boomers soon to be reaping in social security, medicare debts, record breaking bail-outs on Wall Street, natural disasters all around, and a war on terror, importing almost all our energy (to name a few), we have to manage our nation's money better. Raising taxes is not the answer. More effecient and frugal spending is. I am all for lower taxes, less government intervention and more personal freedom. The govt needs to cut waisted programs that aren't working and funnel that money into our deficit and actually lower it. WE need to build our economy -- this is done when we have more of our hard earned money in our own pockets. We face great problems today and we must hold to the values that have made our country strong! Not turn into a socialist/ Marxist nation! China and other nations that do not value human rights and freedom are quickly eating our lunch because they have money and are willing to have their own energy resources. America must remain strong and powerful in this world because we understand and love freedom. If we fail, freedom and liberty fail in the world too. Without strong borders, a strong economy, energy, defense against terror, and actual money in our reserves how can we be the force for good in the world that we must be? I am saddened and scared for the world my children and grandchildren will one day inherit if we lose the battle to remain strong in the world. Raising taxes and big government takes away from our personnal freedom and from our countries very foundation. Obama doesn't want to raise taxes to pay off the deficit, he wants to raise taxes so govt can be bigger and he can build more programs. What if I don't want those programs? I will not have the freedom to pay into them or not. That is so unAmerican. That is one of the many reasons Obama will NOT get my vote! Thanks for giving me a soap box, Kara! It is oh so nice of you!

Elisa Street de Masias said...

I was searching for the pasta salad recipe and came upon an entry I hadn't read. I was completely turned off by the drill more chant at the Rep. convention. Instead of telling Americans to cut-back and smaller cars, walk, ride your bike, etc....they are saying, let's continue our addiction to oil....Not a good solution.